[frazier]

Originally Posted by Remy

Here's a thought. In this economy why spend even $660 when SAGE costs $495 and you don't have to pay a membership fee for the opportunity to spend $660??

Rickey pay attention to this. You do not need an ASI# or ESP> Go to Sage and pay $495. for everything.
It took me 11 years to realize that I was getting ripped off paying membership fees and separate fees for all the rest. To give special pricing to Kaiser Blair is outrageous. What do they consider the rest of us? Are we not qualified distributors too?
Youbetcha!!!! Just my humble opinion.

[aapromotions]

Mary, pay attention, relax, sit down and smell the roses. I love ESP expensive or not. Suits me better than SAGE did.

And even tho' I am not a K&B guy I do not believe they are getting special pricing. K&B seems to be asking to pay back to them from their distributors the fee that ASI charges to K&B. I know because I have two reps that I charge back the 50.00 a month they pay.

[ProPrinters]

Idea, pay them nothing and use distributor central.

My goals is on all new clients never bring one catalog to a meeting. I am going in with a pad and a pen. I don't want catalogs to come into play.

When you give somebody a catalog, hint YOU ARE LOCKED IN TO THAT PRICE.

No such thing as AA+ margins when you sell out of a catalog or sage.


Bring samples on the follow up appointments.

[plantia]

I personally LOVE ESP, it can do everything I need it for AND MORE!
Derek, nothing personal, but you get what you pay for. DC is nice, but is not even in the same galaxy as ESP.
As far as Sage, I do not know, so I cannot say.

[frazier]

Sage will give you a 30 day free trial. You can't beat free. Within 30 days you should be able to see if it is worth the $495. per year as verses asi's ESP.
Yes indeed distributor central is free but not always the best option.

[plantia]

Mary Ann, thanks for the info, but I like ESP and don't plan on giving it up!

[ProPrinters]

the problem with all of these systems is they lead to product selling and not solution selling. Show me how if you send your client to ESP you offer any value to them. you are then selling commodidites, a cup here a pen there.

I am not into that, I want to sell programs, packaging, mailing, fulfillment so I don't try to show a catalog.

[aapromotions]

Originally Posted by ProPrinters

the problem with all of these systems is they lead to product selling and not solution selling. Show me how if you send your client to ESP you offer any value to them. you are then selling commodidites, a cup here a pen there.

I am not into that, I want to sell programs, packaging, mailing, fulfillment so I don't try to show a catalog.

Obviously, you don't understand what ESP is.

[plantia]

Originally Posted by aapromotions

Obviously, you don't understand what ESP is.

Derek, you don't SEND your customer to ESP! It is a tool for distributors!

[bdp656]

Originally Posted by KathyC

We have only kept our ASI number each year. It's up for renewal, which is $399.00 and I'm waivering on keeping or dumping it.

When we started selling promotional products in 1999, ASI told us we had to have a number or no one would sell to us. The rep we had at the time was so rude and arrogant, telling us that the only reason anyone would question the (I think $1500.00 fee) at the time is if they were "mom and pop" stores. So I hold NO loyalty to ASI, but I think they did a good brainwashing job.

Dump or No?

hi kathy,

i agree with you and had felt the same way in the past about the attitude at asi. happily we bid farewell to asi 3 years ago and have not looked back.

so i vote to dump.

and i spend 0.0

[DBeavers]

K & B is offered the special rate for their dealers under a multiple license agreement.

I got the same kind of deal when I purchased AVG Anti-virus for my PC and two laptops. The multiple license for 3 computers was a much better deal for me. Why shouldn't K & B get a volume discount for all the employees and dealers as a group?

As for ASI Membership (?) fee, every K & B dealer is a member under K & B, so I don't have to pay for their non-membership.

I do pay $100 annually to Houston PPA for my regional membership.

Dennis

[cdonovan]

I got rid of ASI back in 2002. They really pissed me off when they overstepped their boundaries and went into the trade show business and sent advertising faxes about their upcoming shows on a daily basis. They were trying to kill PPAI.
I was doing about $3,000 a year with them and felt like they were robbing me. When I called to tell them that I wanted to drop everything but my ASI number, they went from billing me to making me prepay $300 for the number and then even had the gall to tell me that I would be sorry and that I would be back!
I have since dropped my stupid ASI number and haven't been sorry at all to be rid of them. I do wish that suppliers would quit relying on ASI to check credit, but I trust that they will hear from enough of us that we are no longer with them and check credit like other industries do.
So to answer your question, I pay ASI ZERO.

[jimknecht]

Originally Posted by cdonovan

I do wish that suppliers would quit relying on ASI to check credit, but I trust that they will hear from enough of us that we are no longer with them and check credit like other industries do.

You do realize there are 22,000 distributor firms that subscribe to ASI's services... don't you? I said firms, not people.

Why would I give up the best credit reporting system in the industry? It is a tool we use when we can... nothing more, nothing less. With their credit service, we update any bad experiences monthly & do a complete credit update every 6 months. So what other industries have better credit than that? How do other industries check their credit?

[Chris Miller]

Originally Posted by jimknecht

You do realize there are 22,000 distributor firms that subscribe to ASI's services... don't you? I said firms, not people.

Why would I give up the best credit reporting system in the industry? It is a tool we use when we can... nothing more, nothing less. With their credit service, we update any bad experiences monthly & do a complete credit update every 6 months. So what other industries have better credit than that? How do other industries check their credit?

Ummm... every other industry uses DnB and Experian Business Credit.

We've worked hard for a Paydex of 80 and with the help of that score, along with a solid Experian score have secured tens of thousands in revolving accounts. Heck, we have 2 $10,000 gas cards. Don't normally use them, but we maintain them to keep them active.

So do you think I take ASI's credit serious when because of them a supplier doesn't want to give me terms on a $100 cup order? It's insulting.

I love being able to say "We don't use ASI, but if you want to check with one of the real credit reporting companies, feel free."

[royster13]

Chris this business is not like any other.....In most businesses, the businesses buy from a small selection of suppliers on a regular basis.....In this industry many suppliers are used only a few times a year or sometimes so seldom that accounts are closed due to inactivity....A credit service that aggregates information from many suppliers is a far better measure of credit worthiness than external services....

[jimknecht]

Originally Posted by Chris Miller

Ummm... every other industry uses DnB and Experian Business Credit.

Chris, I don't use them, so tell me.

1) Is their info specific to our industry? Specific to how you, as a distributor, pays your vendors? I could care less how you pay your light bill or your taxes.

2) How often is their credit data updated? I stated ASI REQUIRES us to do a complete update every 6 months. We report every single transaction with every single distributor twice a year. But even more importantly, each month they request info on folks who do not pay within terms.

So if every other industry is so smart, then these two folks you mention have to be doing better than ASI. Please explain how what they offer is superior to what ASI offers?

[Chris Miller]

Originally Posted by jimknecht

Chris, I don't use them, so tell me.

1) Is their info specific to our industry? Specific to how you, as a distributor, pays your vendors? I could care less how you pay your light bill or your taxes.

2) How often is their credit data updated? I stated ASI REQUIRES us to do a complete update every 6 months. We report every single transaction with every single distributor twice a year. But even more importantly, each month they request info on folks who do not pay within terms.

So if every other industry is so smart, then these two folks you mention have to be doing better than ASI. Please explain how what they offer is superior to what ASI offers?

Yea i'd say they are doing just a touch better than little ol' ASI

As for your questions, no they are not specific to the industry, but they also have nothing to do with taxes, or light bills (well maybe light bills, but still). Some of the people that report to our file with those guys are Staples, Mobile, Officemax, sears, grainger, uline, amazon, citgo, capital one, dell, charter internet, various supply houses, and yes, even some industry suppliers. Regardless, they are all suppliers to us and I would think that how we pay them would be important to you. It's obvious though that ASI has sold you on the importance of their credit reporting though, and to each their own I suppose. Obviously it works for many in this industry, but I really cant understand why this industry doesn't do what everyone else does. I know the big suppliers use DnB and Experian... maybe its a cost issue for the smaller ones?

Here is a scenario for you. Let's assume we have a huge credit line with you because you fell in love with the data that ASI credit gave you about us. Then one day we started to fall apart. To keep food on the table we HAVE to process that next order so we're religiously paying our suppliers but we're neglecting our credit cards, our leases, our vehicles, or whatever. Before you know it, (or actually, YOU never do know it), we're nearly bankrupt, and we're about to leave you holding the bag on a nice $10,000 cup order. Ever have it happen to you? I think you have.... and did ASI send you some advance warning that they didn't send the others? No, because they had no idea either. With Experian and DnB, you would have known well in advance to cut us off to cover your ***.

Credit data with the big guys is updated by whatever means the other 99.99% of industries use. I honestly know nothing about that part, but from what I understand there is software that ties into internal software and it works just like consumer credit reporting. I know its updated every 30 days, by everyone who reports.

Let me ask you this... when Dooley goes to buy or lease one of those big offset printers, what means does YOUR vendor use to analyze your credit worthiness? Surely it's not ASI, and I doubt you're operating the business under your personal name because of liability issues. So they must be considering your business credit and that would be through DnB or Experian.

[jimknecht]

Chris, my experiences lead me in a completely different direction than what you state. My experience is, distributors will slow pay their industry suppliers first... not last.

Several reasons for that & funny thing is, one has to do with the folks you mention. If you & Nicole fail to pay any of those folks, your main (non industry) credit score gets hurt. You slow pay Dooley & there is no consequence beyond possibly losing your credit line down the road. Also, you slow pay any of those folks by one minute & what happens? Immediate interest charges. You not pay the minimum & you get immediate penalties.

Here is another reason. If you slow pay or fail to pay any industry supplier & they cut your credit, what do you do? You go to another one... no big deal. And even if they are checking industry credit data & happen to refuse you credit, no big deal... you use your credit card. What happens if you fail to pay your mortgage, or taxes or light bill? You gonna walk away from those debts? Not without severe penalty. You gonna find a new power company to bring you electric?

Then when things get real bad, what are you gonna give up first... your house & family or your business? My many years in this industry tells me the business is given up first... after many, many suppliers are screwed. Then the next week, you start a new business & all these industry suppliers using DnB & Experian have no clue what you have done. You see, you kept paying the mortgage, the light bill, made minimum payments on credit cards, so with your folks... you are clean. You have robbed industry suppliers yet Experian has no clue.

So I will stick with industry specific credit. I use both ASI & UPIC, but ASI has more data. You just keep enjoying your dream world where distributors will pay Dooley ahead of "normal" bills. Sometimes your lack of experience in this industry really shows. That is not to be mean, as I think you one of the smarter folks I've met. However you have no experience as being an industry supplier. Even though this is a discussion forum, most suppliers will not or can not tell you how it really is. I will.

[Chris Miller]

Jim,

Sorry man, but you are making NO sense. My personal credit has NOTHING to do with my business credit. NOTHING whatsoever. Family vs business is all irrelevant because they are in no way connected for most. We're talking about paying suppliers vs paying everyone else and you're saying you would rather be disconnected from it all. Again, you are assuming that distributors have to make a family vs business decision and they DONT! They only need to decide whether they will try to make MONEY in that final moment, or NOT. Paying the office supply store, or the gas station that knows only my business (not me personally) does not bring in money. Paying YOU does though... especially if I have another order lined up that needs to come to you.

If anyone out there is setup at a sole prop, then they are fools, plain and simple. I would never let my business risks put my family at risk - EVER. Neither would any 1/2 intelligent business person. Ever have a distributor give you their social security # to secure credit? No, and they aren't giving it to ASI either. That's because they are keeping themselves protected from the actions of their business.

So that leads us back to business credit which is what ASI, Experian business, AND DnB tracks. Unfortunately for you, ASI tracks only ONE SMALL PORTION of it. And sorry again, but when the business starts to fail, a distributor is going try to keep up their INDUSTRY credit for as long as possible. Especially in this industry where the suppliers aren't even looking at how bad they are at paying everyone else! Without being able to place a new order with a supplier, they cannot collect that next check and that's all that matters to a failing distributor.

Suppliers are only ever screwed because they are not using the tools that give them the upper hand. Don't take orders from sole props without checking the owners personal credit, and don't take orders from LLC's, or Corps without checking with (and staying up to date) with Experian and DnB. Plain and simple...

If you or anyone else got screwed by Halo / Lee Wayne, or any other distributor, its because you were too busy keeping an eye on ASI credit. Sorry for you... the real credit reporting agencies would have told you the story long before it went to bankruptcy.

It's funny that you all are surprised to see distributors going under, and setting up under a different name. That doesn't happen when dealing with real credit reporting agencies. Do you think you or I can duck the 3 major reporting agencies? NO! It's because they "have our number" (our social), just like Experian and DnB have the businesses "number". It's you all who are using these non standard services like ASI credit that allows these shady distributors to do what they do. After all, it does only cost $400 to create a brand new "business" with ASI, and come back to you asking for credit. That stuff doesn't fly with DnB and experian.

Now if you have never had a distributor leave you holding the bag, then maybe ASI credit is great. I know that's not true though. You're basing your opinion on what has been shoved down your throat for years.

With all due respect.... really.

Originally Posted by jimknecht

Chris, my experiences lead me in a completely different direction than what you state. My experience is, distributors will slow pay their industry suppliers first... not last.

Several reasons for that & funny thing is, one has to do with the folks you mention. If you & Nicole fail to pay any of those folks, your main (non industry) credit score gets hurt. You slow pay Dooley & there is no consequence beyond possibly losing your credit line down the road. Also, you slow pay any of those folks by one minute & what happens? Immediate interest charges. You not pay the minimum & you get immediate penalties.

Here is another reason. If you slow pay or fail to pay any industry supplier & they cut your credit, what do you do? You go to another one... no big deal. And even if they are checking industry credit data & happen to refuse you credit, no big deal... you use your credit card. What happens if you fail to pay your mortgage, or taxes or light bill? You gonna walk away from those debts? Not without severe penalty. You gonna find a new power company to bring you electric?

Then when things get real bad, what are you gonna give up first... your house & family or your business? My many years in this industry tells me the business is given up first... after many, many suppliers are screwed. Then the next week, you start a new business & all these industry suppliers using DnB & Experian have no clue what you have done. You see, you kept paying the mortgage, the light bill, made minimum payments on credit cards, so with your folks... you are clean. You have robbed industry suppliers yet Experian has no clue.

So I will stick with industry specific credit. I use both ASI & UPIC, but ASI has more data. You just keep enjoying your dream world where distributors will pay Dooley ahead of "normal" bills. Sometimes your lack of experience in this industry really shows. That is not to be mean, as I think you one of the smarter folks I've met. However you have no experience as being an industry supplier. Even though this is a discussion forum, most suppliers will not or can not tell you how it really is. I will.

[tmertz]

Hundreds of industry Suppliers are reporting to Forius which is an Experian reseller. Forius combines both industry reporting with Experian reports to score Distributors. http://www.forius.com

Key to this reporting is the fact that most of the large Suppliers in the industry participate. A lot of transactions, lot of Distributors.

Suppliers that subscribe to Forius at specific levels can have all the Distributor credit scores turned on in their DistributorCentral accounts. This is particularly helpful for outside sales reps. They can perform a zip code search before they go into an area and be aware of which Distributors they should focus on.

If Suppliers are not aware of this functionality in DistributorCentral they should contact DC for a demo. In addition Suppliers using DC for their order management that subscribe to Forius can have their "live" payment histories uploaded seamlessly each month.

[jimknecht]

Chris, all you have to do is look at the credit data I see, & you will know you are incorrect. It is easier to slow pay a supplier than your other creditors. And since almost all suppliers take credit cards nowadays, so what if your industry credit is crappy? So long as you pay your credit cards first, you can continue to operate. It is not like in the old days when if you lost your credit you had to send a cashiers check or money order. That hurt, so it was very important to protect your industry credit. Industry credit is not as important as it used to be & many, such as you & I, prefer not to have it anyway. I get MUCH more value by using Visa's 30 days than my supplier's. I fly for free if I use a credit card yet get absolutely nothing if I use my supplier's.

Too many distributors are failing & if not failing, abusing their credit... because they can. If I complain... they go to a competitor. If they lose their credit, they use a credit card & I lose some profit due to the fees. The new trend is for distributors to shut down, not pay their creditors, then be bought by some larger distributor... who only takes the good stuff & not the liabilities.

Americans have become lazy & feel entitled to a good life... and want it NOW. That means living beyond your means. Buying a $250,000 "starter" home as opposed to a $50,000 one. Having 2 huge SUVs as opposed to sharing one used car. That is why our economy is in the mess it is.

Truth is, Dooley does real well in controlling bad debt, so I know what we are using works.

[olispec]

I am asking myself about ASI, having been a member since I joined my father in this business in 1980 and of course, he was a member long before.

Increasingly I am having to pay suppliers by credit card upon submission of an order. This, despite the letters we receive from suppliers letting us know how much it is appreciated that we pay invoices within 30 days. Filling out a credit application is fine if you have the time to wait for it to be checked out (and I suspect most suppliers hope you will just use a credit card).

This year, we have had one supplier term us "cash in advance" even though we have done thousands of dollars worth of business in the past two years with them and paid well in advance of their terms. We eventually got this changed, but sheesh.

On Friday, I submitted an order to a supplier who had the same order from us a year and a half ago, which was paid in advance then. I faxed them our credit references, bank account, officers addresses, etc. and told them we were in no hurry ... check us out and then proceed on the proof for this order.

I also ordered 100 magnetic calendars ... the kind you put your business card on the adhesive backing on the top ... and because I had not done business with them before, the $29.40 had to be placed on credit card. Not a big amount, but why?

I mean, really. We've been in existence since the 1950s. It used to be that saying "I'm a member of ASI" meant something.

[debbiew]

zero. after 25 years, I quit asi

[stevec]

Originally Posted by debbiew

zero. after 25 years, I quit asi

Me, too. I quit years ago when ASI started charging both sides, and refused to supply my credit info that they were collecting from suppliers automatically, without my 'fee.' At the time I was giving them thousands of dollars in catalog orders.

My feeling then, and now, is that the supplier is paying for a service, and is contributing to the data, too, for the benefit of all suppliers equally. For ASI to censor data is a breach of contract with the suppliers, and was simply a way to shakedown distributors. It was a fundamentally dishonest and unethical way to behave, and I refuse to business with people like that.

I made my feelings known many times, and explained the issue in detail to them. For the most part, the employees understood, but could not get the message to those higher up. Like dutiful automatons, they just do what they are told by the hand that feeds them. They haven't gotten a penny since.

With the advent of the computer, distributorcentral, and other sources, they are a dinosaur. Too big to ignore, small brain, destined for extinction. It did not have to be this way.

Credit certainly allowed my business to grow for a time, but credit is also a false security, too. I have terms with 50% of my suppliers, and pay 50% with credit cards. I feel bad about the wasted bank fee. The banks should not be making so much on the clearing transaction. (They are worse than ASI, which is why planes fly into them).

We all need trade to survive, but it is equally imperative that we trade ethically.

[istorm]

Just for your information...

I got out of the promo products business a little over a year ago because I have a prosperous advertising agency. I thought promotional products would be a logical brand extension, but decided to leave that you those of you who are pros at it. But...

Every once in a while, I'll call suppliers to get pricing or place orders on my own. Not once in a dozen or more calls has anyone asked for any number of any kind from any organization. Fact is, most suppliers will sell to anyone.

Keep up the good work. It's a tough business and I commend those who are pros at what they do.

[Chris Miller]

Paying ASI for anything is sooooooo 20th century.

[liz]

ZERO and will not join again....