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I am curious as to whether or not anyone has started using OrderTrax2 from PPAI? I am really interested in it and plan to call them on Monday but thought I would ask around on here first. If you have anything to share, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
__________________
Chris Miller, GMAS
(Grand Master Advertising Specialist)
I am curious as to whether or not anyone has started using OrderTrax2 from PPAI? I am really interested in it and plan to call them on Monday but thought I would ask around on here first. If you have anything to share, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I sat in through a webinar the other day and learned a lot about the mechanics of the site and how it is designed to streamline the order process -- it did a good job at that -- but all I initially wanted to know was how many suppliers were participating. I was told via text chat exchange that they'd be sending out a list of exisiting users soon.
Like DC, the site is dependent on suppliers being subscribers too as I understood it, as distributor input and inquiries would be forward to suppliers along with a link they could go to in order to interact. That seems "iffy" to me at best.
I was intrigued by what I learned, but I'd still like to know how many suppliers are participating and who they are. Best case scenario would be everybody using it of course. I like that they now offer a Quickbooks plugin. That's what really got me interested.
Participation was my concern too. DC also sounded like a real good idea but not everyone uses it to its full potential so it kinda kills the whole concept. I was hoping OrderTrax2 had a lot more involvement. They mention it being the same software that processed 10,000,000 transactions, and $2.5 billion in orders last year.
Thanks for your reply. Hopefully others will weigh in too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMountain
I sat in through a webinar the other day and learned a lot about the mechanics of the site and how it is designed to streamline the order process -- it did a good job at that -- but all I initially wanted to know was how many suppliers were participating. I was told via text chat exchange that they'd be sending out a list of exisiting users soon.
Like DC, the site is dependent on suppliers being subscribers too as I understood it, as distributor input and inquiries would be forward to suppliers along with a link they could go to in order to interact. That seems "iffy" to me at best.
I was intrigued by what I learned, but I'd still like to know how many suppliers are participating and who they are. Best case scenario would be everybody using it of course. I like that they now offer a Quickbooks plugin. That's what really got me interested.
__________________
Chris Miller, GMAS
(Grand Master Advertising Specialist)
I agree that supplier participation is going to be the key for getting a lot of distributors on board. At the Expo there was a list of suppliers who had signed up, but it will come down to whether the supplier list includes many/most of those that we do business with.
But then it's kind of like chicken/egg too - if lots of distributors signed up, so would the suppliers, and vice versa. How does a service provider company get the ball rolling so that the momentum takes over? I would guess they are going after some of the bigger distributorships and distributor organizations. If they can get those bigger groups signed up, then the suppliers would be incentivized to participate, and that in turn means more distributors would sign up too. Otherwise it's just another system, and neither distributors or suppliers can afford to have too many of those going at the same time.
I am sure that debates like this would be frustrating to the service provider, who could be thinking...
"Gee, if all those asking about it would just sign up, the whole problem would be solved."
__________________
With aloha, Isa
Isa Cocallas
3Koi - Your partners in creative promotions www.3koi.com
"Gee, if all those asking about it would just sign up, the whole problem would be solved."
I might add it is a little tougher for a supplier to "sign up" with a service provider than it is for a distributor. There are many hundreds or thousands of items with all their price points plus all additional charges. This has been a HUGE problem in our industry & we have discussed it before. Last thing I need is another service to monitor & update. I just wish there was one repository for supplier data.
I might add it is a little tougher for a supplier to "sign up" with a service provider than it is for a distributor. There are many hundreds or thousands of items with all their price points plus all additional charges. This has been a HUGE problem in our industry & we have discussed it before. Last thing I need is another service to monitor & update. I just wish there was one repository for supplier data.
Good point, Jim.
__________________ All posts and opinions are my own, unless you find it offensive, arrogant, or unintelligent, in which case I copied it directly from or modeled it very closely after a post from [NAME DELETED]
Here's a list of suppliers they sent to me today in response to my request. Many of my suppliers are on the list so now I'm much more interested.
Those are 117 top suppliers. Although I haven't used all of them I have used many and value the relationships built over the years. Hard to say at this juncture if I would go with OrderTrax2. After 34 years in the biz I may be a little set in my operational structure, but this might be a great avenue for new or rapidly growing companies. It looks like it is worth exploring.
__________________
Mike Drexler, MAS
Ad Store USA, Inc.
Fort Myers, FL 33919
That is the ePSA Participating Supplier list, not suppliers using OrderTrax2. Nice to see we are on it, but I dont think we are actively trading documents anymore due to some issues with our implementation solution. [WARNING: Geek talk ahead!!] New one on its way within a few months, hopefully.. Now that I can move information from the ASI database to our SQL one for OrderTracker (ot.proinnovative.com), its should be a bit easier to get the information to their servers... hopefully.. except they want XML info, and I have been too busy trying to drive sales that I haven't had the time to concentrate on it at all...
See here is the dilemma. Here you have Damon, a professed geek, and even he can't keep his data accurate & updated on multiple platforms... all using different standards. So what is an idiot, redneck from Mississippi supposed to do? What are you distributors supposed to do? His company has info that is being used but is not updated. Is there anything worse than incorrect info?
That is the ePSA Participating Supplier list, not suppliers using OrderTrax2....
Damon,
Interesting. The list I shared was sent in response to my specific request for suppliers participating in OrderTrax. Message that accompanied the list attachment:
"Rick:
Attached is a list of current e-PSA/OrderTrax² participating Suppliers."
So what you're saying is that the list is not an accurate representation of participating suppliers?
See here is the dilemma. Here you have Damon, a professed geek, and even he can't keep his data accurate & updated on multiple platforms... all using different standards. So what is an idiot, redneck from Mississippi supposed to do? What are you distributors supposed to do? His company has info that is being used but is not updated. Is there anything worse than incorrect info?
We work hard to keep our product info updated where we feel it needs to be. It takes 2 of us to do it.
- proinnovative.com
- SAGE (by far the easiest to maintain)
- ESPOnline (in the middle as far as ease)
- DistributorCentral (by far the most difficult)
- Several large key distributors websites
As far as order status goes, we invested and developed out Order Tracker website for our customers and CS department (built on PantherTrack from Data Helper). It works great for both sides of the fence. If I were to invest more money in the future, it would be to enhance this tool further.
We have bled so much money on ePSA since 2002 its not even funny. We went through 2 consultants who, in the end, could not provide a well working solution. This is mostly due to the ProfitMaker database structure. I just kinda gave up when I started working on the Order Tracker software, and since it automatically notifies our customers of Order Received, Art Proof Ready, and Order Shipped, and customers are able to login and see their order history and other "steps" in the process of their order, I haven't had a request about ePSA from a distributor in a very, very long time.
However, now it shouldn't be so hard since the information in ProfitMaker now imports to the OT, which is built on open source software solutions (LAMP). Makes it somewhat easier to get the info, but now I need to find a workaround to the Tag Transceiver and XML requirements. Two reasons Im not hurrying to work on that - first being that my time is more devoted to driving sales than IT right now, and the other being money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMountain
Damon,
Interesting. The list I shared was sent in response to my specific request for suppliers participating in OrderTrax. Message that accompanied the list attachment:
"Rick:
Attached is a list of current e-PSA/OrderTrax² participating Suppliers."
So what you're saying is that the list is not an accurate representation of participating suppliers?
It shows suppliers participating in ePSA. Some might be using the Order Trax software - no clue there. Im going to guess Tom Gindrup @ ePSA Labs can shed some light on that. I know he wanders around here every now and then. Technically, an ePSA participating supplier IS and Order Trax participating supplier.. doesnt mean they are actually using the software. Its because OrderTrax obtains its information from ePSA traded documents.
There's no point in mirroring everything that Damon has said other than to say "+1"
Damon, we actually were able to pull the info out of ASI for ePSA purposes using the Advantage ODBC driver and a vbscript that ran as a scheduled task each night. I'm currently in the process of reworking the system and using PHP for the scripting language instead of vbscript, as I use the Advantage PHP extension with our website so that I can pull information such as order status, stock status, etc.. Instead of spending alot of money on 3rd party solutions to pull data from ASI, I recommend looking directly at the abilities to connect to Advantage Database using the tools provided by Extended Systems (now Sybase) and using the Data Dictionary provided by ASI as a reference.
There's no point in mirroring everything that Damon has said other than to say "+1"
Damon, we actually were able to pull the info out of ASI for ePSA purposes using the Advantage ODBC driver and a vbscript that ran as a scheduled task each night. I'm currently in the process of reworking the system and using PHP for the scripting language instead of vbscript, as I use the Advantage PHP extension with our website so that I can pull information such as order status, stock status, etc.. Instead of spending alot of money on 3rd party solutions to pull data from ASI, I recommend looking directly at the abilities to connect to Advantage Database using the tools provided by Extended Systems (now Sybase) and using the Data Dictionary provided by ASI as a reference.
I think my biggest problem was linking the stupid account numbers (in most cases, ASI numbers) to D&B numbers... gotta rely on ePSA project to keep me updated on what distributors are participating in ePSA and keep my databases current..
My data is already pulling from ASI, thanks to a really good consultant who did most of the leg work on the OrderTracker system for us. Its now just a matter of adding a field to the customer database in SQL to add D&B numbers and an identifier of ePSA distributors, then mapping the data. Actually pretty simple now (except for the linking of accounts to D&B.. phooey)
Which actually makes me wonder - why did ePSA pick D&B numbers instead of something like UPIC (which would make more sense for our industry)... Was it some requirement to the Rosetta framework?
Our solution to that problem was to create a new contact type called "DUNS" and then for each customer whom we were transmitting ePSA info to, we would add their D&B # as a contact in the customer master. The script followed this sequence-
1. Start a new text file.
2. Poll all customer with a DUNS contact type.
3. For each customer returned, poll all open orders.
4. For each order returned, write a line to the text file.
5. Close the text file and move it to the TAG Transceiver outbox.
Last edited by CrownProdWeb; 06-24-2009 at 12:56 PM.
Which actually makes me wonder - why did ePSA pick D&B numbers instead of something like UPIC (which would make more sense for our industry)... Was it some requirement to the Rosetta framework?
I too sat through the webinar. My concern is that I like to prepare my PO's using a Word document, not Quickbooks. I can't imagine trying to put all the pertinent information required as a line item in my accounting software. I asked the Order Trax rep that called me if I could send the Word document and they said NO.
How do you guys that use Quickbooks for PO's handle details such as embroidery specification.... thread colors, location, image for reference, logo modifications, etc. Do quantities/sizes and all pertinent info need to be entered as a new line item?
DC also sounded like a real good idea but not everyone uses it to its full potential so it kinda kills the whole concept. I was hoping OrderTrax2 had a lot more involvement. They mention it being the same software that processed 10,000,000 transactions, and $2.5 billion in orders last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMountain
Like DC, the site is dependent on suppliers being subscribers too as I understood it, as distributor input and inquiries would be forward to suppliers along with a link they could go to in order to interact. That seems "iffy" to me at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleMountain
"Attached is a list of current e-PSA/OrderTrax² participating Suppliers."
Isn't DC using ePSA with suppliers that want to use it, then simply emailing the ones that don't?
I remember when BIC was doing the ePSA thing, and it was a total mess sending orders through DC.
__________________ rich graham
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How do you guys that use Quickbooks for PO's handle details such as embroidery specification.... thread colors, location, image for reference, logo modifications, etc. Do quantities/sizes and all pertinent info need to be entered as a new line item?
Yes. Line items can be as long as you like, just type the information in. But while the item itself may be ordered again & again, but the details are different, we create an item, and edit the description. Like this:
Create an item like PC61 Sanmar T-shirt, giving it a unique item number and a general description. Then when you create a PO, bring in that item, enter the quantity, and go to the description field and add in all the details for that order. No more work than using Word.
We do sometimes put some of the repetitive detail info in the item description to start, so our item list might show:
I too sat through the webinar. My concern is that I like to prepare my PO's using a Word document, not Quickbooks. I can't imagine trying to put all the pertinent information required as a line item in my accounting software. I asked the Order Trax rep that called me if I could send the Word document and they said NO.
How do you guys that use Quickbooks for PO's handle details such as embroidery specification.... thread colors, location, image for reference, logo modifications, etc. Do quantities/sizes and all pertinent info need to be entered as a new line item?
I'm using Quickbooks for everything BUT my PO's, but would like to get everything under one roof, so to speak. I generally don't include images in my main PO, but will reference an attachment that I send along. I'm sure I could do the same with extensive apparel & decorating info. As I understand it, the QB plug in is an optional addon, and not required.
Not to derail the thread much further, but with QB 2009 you can now e-mail orders using Outlook. As a result, you can attach additional files such as artwork.
For art approvals, I make a pdf out of the estimate and import to Corel. Bring in the art, and then pdf it again to sent to the customer.
I still find a lot of suppliers like PO's to be faxed and art to be e-mailed so I 'fax' the PO using myfax right from QB with the fax number in the e-mail.
I'm adding these comments in response to those above from Rick Ornnerg, Mike Drexler and Damon Subasa.
Regarding the UPIC id vs the DUNS #, it is my understanding that when e-PSA was being formed in 2000-2001, the decision to rely on the DUNS number was made for two principal reasons: (1) many suppliers have customers who are not in the promotional products industry (related markets like awards & recognition, business forms, etc) and do not have UPIC id's and (2) because the UPiC Directory was not at that time as reliable a data source as it has become over the last 10 years. The recent decision to accept the UPIC id as a company identifier seem to me to reflect the fact that so few industry firms know their DUNS number (if they have one at all) and the improved quality and reliability of the UPIC data.
Regarding the list of 117 suppliers in that Excel file posted by Rick, you may find when you examine it closely that there are really only 93/94 suppliers on the list, depending on whether you count Awardcraft and Visions as one company or two. Sort the list alphabetically and you will see several duplicate listings (for example: Alexander, Awardcraft, Bic, Carlson Craft, Fields, Gold Bond), a number of apparel wholesalers, an embroidery tape company, a software company, and even one or 2 distributors. The list of 93 suppliers appears to me to closely resemble the same suppliers who have been listed on one of the 3 e-PSA web sites for several years. Being an e-PSA "trading partner" does give a company a head-start for Order Trax especially if they send or receive orders through the TAG Switch, but I think if you check with some of those companies and ask them if they are using OrderTrax to conduct business, you will find that most say either "not yet" or "no."
There is a very important component to Order Trax (in my opinion) that occurs after an order is transmitted from a distributor to a supplier. I know that a lot of attention is being given to the transmittal, and as noted above by some QuickBooks users there are good reasons to be wary of that function. However, as I see it, the real value in OrderTrax is in its ability to improve the communication about an order after it is in the supplier's hands. Others have introduced solutions for that since 2000, and it is where the greatest progress has yet to be made in terms of reducing business "friction" for order processing.
We had a similar thing in 2002 with the Artwork Task Force when leaders came to realize that "transmittal" was not the problem, it was something else. That is why such progress has been made with the sm@rt campaign, because it focused on the real problem and did something about it.
Before the industry used email, all the communication about an order was contained in a "job jacket" or manilla folder at both the supplier and distributor's office. Even if a fax was transmitted, it still made its way into the job jacket. Today, important communication about an order is decentralized, spread around in numerous email inboxes around a company, resulting in confusion, costs, delay and errors. When leaders begin to focus on the real problems in order processing, they may see more success with the technology solutions they market to the industry.
I hope these comments contribute to greater understanding.
(clipped) ...... but I think if you check with some of those companies and ask them if they are using OrderTrax to conduct business, you will find that most say either "not yet" or "no."
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative post!
As you correctly inferred, its how well they solve a problem that's most important. To me, connecting more efficiently with those suppliers I use the most is my primary need.
It's the clip above that gives me pause from ordering, though. Either the person who sent me the information is out of the functional loop -- and just sent me a list that was handy-- or I have been mislead. If the service were a monthly committment, or had a 30 trial I'd experiment. Since I'm told I'd have to subscribe for at least a year, I think I'll wait and see.
I sit on the ePSA board and am familiar with this situation.
When the decision was made to use D&B numbers access was free and relatively easy. Similar to ASI D&B has decided that access to their numbers should no longer be free. We looked at either ePSA, DistributorCentral, or PPAI paying to get everyone's D&B and share it but were prevented by licensing. In addition Distributors were reluctant to provide their or get a D&B number. Every business either has one or can get one at no charge. It is not as easy however to get a company's D&B number if not provided.
For an industry solution to work for all the company identifiers must be maintained in a centralized location and free of charge for all. Since both Suppliers and Distributors are putting these identifiers into their backend systems it is important to remember that once selected and distributed it cannot be easily changed by all that are using it.
For Suppliers and Distributors to implement they have to add the industry identifier to their backend systems. Two things have to happen, Distributors have to get UPIC identifiers and Suppliers have to do matching in their backend systems using address, phone number and other data fields.
DistributorCentral offers services similar to OrderTrax at no charge. We have completed code and have updated UPIC matching as recently as last month. Distributors simply have to "enable ePSA" in their DC accounts. This will require a Distributor to get a UPIC identifier. From there we will notify Suppliers to send status updates to DC. Suppliers have to update their backend systems to start sending on behalf of that distributor.
Over 4500 Distributors have sent orders to Suppliers using DistributorCentral and we would encourage all to "enable ePSA" in their accounts. Numbers will encourage Suppliers to get on the ePSA bandwagon. In addition DistributorCentral provides ePSA services for Suppliers that wish to receive orders, provide order status, and invoice using the standards.
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Tom Mertz
President of TradeNet Publishing & DistributorCentral.com
A quick thanks to Dennis and Tom for sharing their knowledge on this.
I got an email from the OT2 guys this morning.. Looks like they are really getting ready to try to crank it up.
As noted, ePSA has approved the use of UPIC for identifiers now. Still a pain for me, but a small tweak to my database and PHP code should allow me to start entering the relevant ones. Too bad ASI and PPAI arent getting along or it would be nice to get an ASI # -> UPIC database to make it that much quicker....
